Posts by Sara Annie

39

Elizabeth Smart found alive.

by JeffT in

tv just broke into coverage of a fire to report that police in sandy utah found her alive and well in a car during a routine traffic stop.

she'd been missing since last july 4th when her sister said that a man came into their room in the middle of the night and took her.

no details yet.

Sara Annie

I think you all you nay-sayers suck. Did you ever stop to think that he probabl threatened to kill her entire family if she didn't comply no different than a child that is molested IN THE HOME and to scared to tell because of the same type of threats. I am so damn sick of the victims and the victims famlies ending up to walk the fire that the perpetrator should be walking why no ? about that MF***** huh, why no hey why didn't his ex-wife tell more about her fears? huh What about Polly Klaas huh same type of circumstances. Would you be so F*****willing to voice your opinion if the this one had turned up with a dead little girl. This is what's wrong with the world so willing to question and condemn the victim that the perpetrators actions is second to the event as I said YOU SUCK

Jeesh, Sheila. Calm down! If you go back and read the posts you'll find that I commented directly to Polly Klaas' situation, covered the whole stockholm syndrome aspect and I think the general consensus by people not willing to jump to conclusions is that everyone is very happy she's back, regardless of the circumstances.

Let's remember that it wasn't long ago that overzealous cries of guilt and demands for justice once had an entire country looking for phantom criminals who "abducted" Susan Smith's children. In this case, it led to a man who did NOT abduct her being jailed and subsequently dying. Like it or not, everything is not always as it seems. The media went after that man with a vengeance and everyone assumed him totally guilty, and now they just shrug it off with an "Oh Well".

PS The latests is the abductor had a knife and that he did cut the screen and he had been watching her for sometime before he took her.

Several weeks ago CBS had an update special on Elizabeth's disappearance and the lead investigator said that the cut screen was most likely NOT the method of entrance into the house since there was no evidence (tracks, fiber evidence, prints, etc) that anyone had done anything but cut the screen. In his opinion, the cut screen was to divert attention away from the fact that the door was probably used, and the intruder most likely had a key to gain access. Right now, when we know so little of the specifics, it's probably a good idea to wait before blindly believing whatever the media is saying.

155

how do you feel re homosexuality?

by nowisee in

Sara Annie

Why do people constantly get a knot in their panties about stuff that isn't even any of their business.
I confess that I don't like spinach. Actually I hate it. I can't stand to see it or smell it. I prefer it be in a sealed container if I am in the same room with it. Honestly, spinach is nasty.
But I don't hate spinach eaters. And if eating spinach is good for them, and harms none, that that shall be the end of the matter, to misquote Crowley.

Yeah, what he said! Thanks, Git, you saved me the trouble of having to post essentially the same thing.

"do you actually compare homosexuality with rape"
I am amused how the point is missed and we go to left field. No, I don’t. The topic was not which is worse. The claim was that DNA makes people do what they do. Following this logic, one could do anything related to drive and defend it. Where does it stop?

And yes, you DID equate the homosexuality with rape. You can't come back afterward and more or less say "Sure, I used both terms in a comparative manner in an analogy but that doesn't mean I was actually comparing the two." Please. As to the point you were trying to make, it's apples and oranges. You absolutely cannot compare acts that are consensual and have absolutely no direct effect on anyone but the willing participants. Just because there are people in this world who get off on being tied up and whipped by another person who just loves to do the whippin' does not then mean that we can say it's OK for criminals to violently assault other people.

The point is that you can be personally outraged by homosexuality from some long-held wacky religious belief, you can think to yourself "Ooh, Ick!" all you want, you can even believe that it's unnatural and wrong and vile and evil. And then you can take a breath, calm down, and realize that it doesn't affect you in the least. That's the moment when you realize that you've finally gotten over your little self.

8

For those who became JWs as adults...

by Sara Annie in

before i begin, it would probably be helpful for me to (in a nutshell) explain that i am not currently, nor have i ever been, one of jehovah's witnesses.

my experience with the organization is peripheral in that my extended family became heavily involved several years ago.

in maintaining a relationship with that part of the family, i had relatively extensive dealings with the jws (for a "worldly" person) for many years of my childhood and beyond (if you're at all interested, you can read the details of my experience here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/44589/626056/post.ashx#626056).

Sara Annie

I found him introducing me to people from abusive homes, abusive marriages, people with former [and current] alcohol problems and severe emotional turmoil. I began to see that the "Truth" seemed like a haven for people who had terrible experiences in life and needed someplace to be where they felt safe. The problem was many of these people probably needed counseling [like my fiance] but they weren't going to get it because now the Watchtower was going to fix all their problems for them.

Silverleaf- that was exactly my experience with the witnesses as a child! I couldn't believe how they used to sit around talking about how special and wonderful their religion and 'brotherhood' was, and in the next breath discuss the numerous drugs that were being taken for various psychological problems. As an adult, I have felt that if I had a dime for each time a JW has enumerated upon the many mental illnesses prevalent in their congregation I could buy a small country. What amazes me more, is that while they're blathering on about sister so-and-so's sexual abuse issues, or their mother's obsessive-compulsive disorder, or their brother-in-law's anger issues, they don't stop to think that the prevalence of so many mental health issues in a specific community is pretty damn weird. Amazing.

Spend 17 years trying to reason on ludicrous Catholic theology, and the simplicity of the "good news" will seem miraculous.

Beryl-As someone who grew up Catholic, this makes a great deal of sense to me. It was the same with my family members, I believe. There had been some type of scandal in their parish, and the knock on the door was welcomed with open arms.

I would have paid more attention to the red flags I had going up telling me "Slow down" and "proceed with caution" and "are you sure about this".

DantheMan-

Isn't that the truth? I think that's something that we all need to work on. That little voice inside of us is there for a reason, and I know I don't always listen to it like I should. (Of course, if the little voice inside of you has a name, a distinct personality, and a thirst for blood it's an entirely different matter!)

They often spoke of the sense of a replacement family, and having a purpose. My aunt described this as "love for the unloved". I remember my dad saying that if someone had taken an academic/career guidiance interest in him as a young person, things might have been different.

happysunshine-

This sums up the impression I get from just about everyone. I can see how someone who saw themselves as 'damaged' would be attracted to the "love" they found in the organization...

Thank you again, everyone, for your replies so far. This has been a journey of understanding for me, and I am so thankful that you've taken the time to relay your experiences.

39

Elizabeth Smart found alive.

by JeffT in

tv just broke into coverage of a fire to report that police in sandy utah found her alive and well in a car during a routine traffic stop.

she'd been missing since last july 4th when her sister said that a man came into their room in the middle of the night and took her.

no details yet.

Sara Annie

I think it would behoove us all to retain a healthy level of skepticism, but to likewise not think the complete worst of a situation we know VERY little about.

And from her own BEDROOM?!? How does that work?!

Amazingly, children have been known to be kidnapped directly from their bedrooms by total strangers. Little Polly Klaas was abducted in this manner, her two friends spending the night were tied up, threatened, and ordered to keep quiet, and the man left with Polly, subsequently raping and killing her. The police focused heavily on Polly's father Mark initially, and the delay cost them precious time in which Polly could have been found alive. I do understand that the odds weigh heavily in the favor against stranger abduction, but it can't be ignored that there are a whole lot of whackos out there and they do very bad things.

Having said that, I can't help but feel there is more to this story than we now know. Is it possible the girl went with this guy voluntarily? And what kind of hold did he have on her all these months? In other words, I wonder if she went through an experience similar to Patty Hearst and perhaps became emotionally tied with this creep.

Interestingly, I thought the same thing at first. I wondered if she might have gone willingly with the man. She was 14, after all. This was not an 8 year old girl, and it isn't beyond the scope of imagination that she might have been complicit in her disappearance. I told my husband last night that I hoped she hadn't gone willingly--to cause such pain to her parents and wreak such havoc on the whole world would be really awful. He brought me right down to earth when he asked how on earth it would be better that she was kidnapped against her will, raped and tortured? I pointed out that it surprised me that a 14-15 year old girl wouldn't find at least one opportunity to run away screaming toward the nearest person. He then pointed that kidnappers exert very serious hold on their victims, and grown adults have been known to come to identify with their captors. In any event, no matter the details surrounding her disappearance, I'm am so thrilled for her family (and her!) that she has come home. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child under any circumstances.

She was reared in a beautiful home, educated, and from all the pictures I've seen of her, appears to be a very innocent human being.

I'm sorry, but present situation notwithstanding, this is a silly thing to say. A beautiful house, education and a lovely appearance guarantee nothing. How many hundreds of horrible events have we seen reported that end with something along the lines of "It's so hard to believe, he/she was such a nice person from such a good family." Please.

And as a side note, I had a very hard time listening to everyone crying out "God has answered our prayers!" Does that mean that in each case where a child did NOT come home, God just wasn't around? I'm sure that makes me a horrible cynic, but forgive me. Faith and I have been arm-wrestling a lot in the last year or two, and it seems I'm winning. It's too bad. I want to believe...

21

Jesus, The Heart, And The Entry Level Spirit Thing...

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

i know that we have some who post to this board who have left the wts and are now committed christians, something it was difficult for them to be as jehovahs witnesses!.

i have always been puzzled at the experiences of those who seem to pray and ask jesus to enter their hearts and report a great event taking place.

what exactly happened to you?

Sara Annie

SixofNine:

I really enjoyed reading that essay you posted.

Thanks.

8

For those who became JWs as adults...

by Sara Annie in

before i begin, it would probably be helpful for me to (in a nutshell) explain that i am not currently, nor have i ever been, one of jehovah's witnesses.

my experience with the organization is peripheral in that my extended family became heavily involved several years ago.

in maintaining a relationship with that part of the family, i had relatively extensive dealings with the jws (for a "worldly" person) for many years of my childhood and beyond (if you're at all interested, you can read the details of my experience here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/44589/626056/post.ashx#626056).

Sara Annie

LB-

Thanks for your response, and for pointing me toward your DA letter.

I think that emotional state (and the "love-bombing" they showed her at the beginning) played a giant role in my Aunt (and subsequently her whole family's) involvement with the witnesses. From many of the posts I've read it seems like the real nuts and bolts of witness life are withheld until after baptism.

As a side note, I enjoy reading your posts on a variety of topics. I like the "tell it as you see it" attitude. Thanks again for responding!

Sara

29

How long could you live without electricity?

by JH in

jw
friends

i lived through the ice storm of january 97 in quebec.

i spent 1 complete day without electricity.

it was about 25f (-5c) outside, and i had no heating.

Sara Annie

8 days.

Several years ago (97 I think?) we had a big ice storm in this region that not only knocked out power in rural areas, but hit the city very hard as well. We lost power for 8 (very long) days in our neighborhood. We decided to stick it out at home, and actually had several overnight guests since our large basement and fireplace afforded a warm, relatively comfortable place to camp out in the dead of winter. The loss of modern conveniences was difficult. We had a small generator that allowed us to use many electric items when necessary, and still had hot water to shower and clean up. We lost a chest freezer full of food, and our beautiful old maple trees were badly damanged.

Interestingly, though the lack of electricity was quite annoying, I found that it was the constant exposure to family and friends that took the biggest toll on me. After 8 days, the novelty of rousing board games, daily McDonald's take out, reading aloud for entertainment, and communal campouts in the basement became a little tiresome. By day 7 as I was dragging in more wood for the fire, I was about ready to stand up and annouce to the sea of sleeping bags: "People, I love you all, but if the carbon monoxide doesn't get you all first, I will!"

An all around interesting experience that I wouldn't want to live through again. My husband now says that one of the chief reasons we built our new house is so that we'd never live in a neighborhood with above ground power lines again.

8

For those who became JWs as adults...

by Sara Annie in

before i begin, it would probably be helpful for me to (in a nutshell) explain that i am not currently, nor have i ever been, one of jehovah's witnesses.

my experience with the organization is peripheral in that my extended family became heavily involved several years ago.

in maintaining a relationship with that part of the family, i had relatively extensive dealings with the jws (for a "worldly" person) for many years of my childhood and beyond (if you're at all interested, you can read the details of my experience here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/44589/626056/post.ashx#626056).

Sara Annie

Before I begin, it would probably be helpful for me to (in a nutshell) explain that I am not currently, nor have I ever been, one of Jehovah's Witnesses. My experience with the organization is peripheral in that my extended family became heavily involved several years ago. In maintaining a relationship with that part of the family, I had relatively extensive dealings with the JWs (for a "worldly" person) for many years of my childhood and beyond (If you're at all interested, you can read the details of my experience here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/44589/626056/post.ashx#626056). I have recently begun working on a post-graduate degree in philosophy (with a planned emphasis in comparative religious studies) and the months I have spent here reading and participating in discussions here have been both enjoyable and interesting.

My continued investigation into the Witnesses and their activities has been enlightening. I fully accept that the WT is a cultist organization (given my research into the basic characteristics of cults), I see the emotional dependence that the WT fosters in its constituency, and I absolutely understand how the threat of losing one's entire family and social circle motivates people to remain within the organization (or fade away in order to maintain their reputation in the community). But the more I know, the less I understand something: If you were not either born into the religion, or exposed as a minor by parents who converted in adulthood, how is it that you came to believe that the information being presented to you was "The Truth™"?

As a relatively intelligent human being with at least average powers of discernment, it puzzles me how any rational adult would read the material disseminated by the Witnesses and be so convinced of its veracity as to leave their former beliefs and lives behind to subscribe to it. It seems to me that to buy into what the WT "bible study" literature and process advocate, it would take a great deal of blind trust in the information you'd been given, and it seems that blind trust is tantamount to naiveté. I think that most human beings have a healthy amount of natural skepticism. It's against my nature, and most people's I would think, to give credence to anything of importance without at least a modicum of research on the subject. Common sense cautions us to "beware of the man who has read only one book", and at least a cursory glance at other information available is generally advisable before boldly subscribing to a new belief.

I also have come to believe that the emotional state of the potential convert must be extremely important in whether or not they are susceptible to the sales pitch. I think that was the case with my family (again, see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/44589/626056/post.ashx#626056) and I am interested to know if emotional state played a big part in the acceptance of JW beliefs in other adults.

I'm sure this subject has been covered multiple times by other threads and posters (but without that darn "search" function, it's difficult to pare down) but my sincere question is this: If you converted to the religion in adulthood, what were the factors that led you to believe that the WT was indeed presenting you with the one 'true' religion? Did you do any research into the organization before/while you were studying? Do you feel that your emotional state at the time of your exposure to the Witnesses was a factor in your decision to join the organization? If you had the opportunity to change the circumstances surrounding your introduction to the WT, what would you do differently (besides just not answer the door!) that you think would have had an effect on whether or not you would have become involved in with the JWs?

I know this is a tall order, and I appreciate any sincere responses. If you've answered these questions before, a link to your post would be great. I would love to be able to use information gathered on this forum as citable testimonial research, and would of course protect anonymity as well as request permission before using any person's posted experiences in any work-product.

On a more personal note, I want to again extend my congratulations and admiration to everyone here who, no matter their current standing in the organization, has had the courage to investigate the religion beyond the boundaries the WT allows. Truth will always stand up to scrutiny. I thank you for your time in reading (and responding) to my questions, and apologize for the length of this post!

75

Interesting UK Daily Mirror Article

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

since some consider the us to be the most dangerous rogue nation currently and others have stated we are little more than corrupt thugs, i find this article from the daily mirror to be quite intersting.. .

tony parsons - uk daily mirror september 11, 2002 no matter what your views on president bush's statement of upcoming war, this is from an english journalist, is very interesting.

no, do more than remember.

Sara Annie

It seems, for instance, that the 2,000 people who died that day are worth much more than the 30,000 foreign children who also died that day ... and every other day since from starvation and preventable disease. What crime did they commit that they should not get the same attention other than die poor and off-camera? It refuses to take part in 'the rest of the world' when it comes to things like climate change / pollution control but expects the world to merrily dance to it's tune when it wants to go to war.

Are you actually asserting that the US doesn't give copious amounts of aid or attention to those world matters? Are you kidding?

27

History of Head Covering for JW Women

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

it is not a case of her being appointed to conduct a congregational meeting.

in such cases the dedicated brother should offer the prayer, and the sister may conduct the study with her head covered.

for if a woman does not cover herself, let her also be shorn.1 cor.

Sara Annie

Isn't it great the Sovreign Lord God of the Universe gives a flying act of copulation what a woman sticks on her head when she talks to him in the presence of a man? Such attention to detail.. truely are the hairs on our head numbered... or the tea-towels, Kleenex, sanitary towels, hankies... pity god's not more attentive to dying babies, but hair and head coverings, he's on the ball!

My thoughts exactly.

Well, not exactly, I guess. My thoughts were more like: Why the hell would any right thinking human being with a modicum of intelligence read this crap and think that what you wear on your head is governed by a few random sentences written thousands of years ago. I mean, isn't that sort of like someone reading the complete works of Dr. Seuss and then dictating that in order to live a righteous life one must be very careful never to eat with a goat, in a boat, in a house, or with a mouse?

Commenting on this, the book “This Means Everlasting Life” states: “In the apostle’s day, and especially there in the scandalously immoral city of ancient Corinth, it was the custom for respectable women to go veiled in public. For a woman to go otherwise to public assemblies was to brand her a woman of low moral standards and easy virtue. . . . In these modern times or in lands where custom does not require women of the community to go veiled as a sign of respectability, Christian decency does not require the woman to comply with that ancient custom for the sake of the faith and organization. . . .

...but in the very next sentence let's just forget everything I just said about the historical reasons for such things being written, and apply them to our modern society with a broad brush. Jesus. Why is what is so glaringly apparent to anyone on the outside of this kooky organization so difficult for people on the inside to recognize? I totally buy the whole "mind-control of cults" theory and explanation, but it's still hard to see how a relatively intelligent person with a decent grasp of reality gets sucked into such a black hole of silliness.